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matt-thorn
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(Date Posted:06/10/2006 9:21 PM)

Anyone who reads my posts knows I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, but once in a while my opinions stray from the liberal mainstream. One such case is the "national language" debate. This article from Reuters captures the essence of the debate:http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2006-06-09T133215Z_01_N08392339_RTRUKOC_0_US-LIFE-ENGLISH.xml&src=rssThe gentleman, 66 year-old Joey Vento, who put up the sign reading "This is America -- when ordering speak English" in his cheese steak restaurant in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (very close to my home town) is the grandson of Italian immigrants. He says "They should be glad that I put the sign up. I'm trying to help them to speak English." He further says, "Without the English language, they are going to have a lot of problems in this country."In response, Roberto Santiago, executive director of Philadelphia's Council of Spanish Speaking Organizations, said "I think what's coming out of his mouth is racist [....] He is saying, 'I don't like these brown faces in my community and I will do everything I can to get them out of there.'"As an "immigrant" of sorts (I was born and raised in the U.S., but have lived most of my adult life in Japan), I agree with Mr. Vento, and I find Mr. Santiago's response to be offensive, disturbing, and disappointingly shallow.I recently spent three weeks in the beautiful city of Halle, in East Germany, and for the first time in twenty years had the humbling experience of not being able to communicate in everyday situations. But I have learned the language of the country I live in--Japan--and I have met many non-Japanese (usually from Anglophone nations) who, although they have also lived in Japan for many years, have never bothered to learn the language, and assume that they should be able to get by with English. I have always found this attitude to be arrogant and naive. Most Japanese living in Japan, though they spend six years learning to read and write English, never have an opportunity to learn to comprehend spoken English or speak it. This is only natural. English and German have much in common, but I had trouble communicating with East Germans. Obviously, it is going to be much more difficult for Japanese to master a language as different from their own as English.I chose to live in Japan, so I made the effort to learn Japanese. True, I had the luxury of a college education, where I was first introduced to Japanese. But I learned most of my Japanese by talking with Japanese, watching Japanese television, and reading manga, newspapers and magazines. Economic class is not an excuse. I have met many people in my life who learned to communicate in a second language without benefit of formal langauge training. They did so by simply interacting with natives, making and correcting mistakes, and just trying to understand and make themselves understood. Their grammar may be terrible, and their vocabularly may be skewed, but they learned to communicate by just going out there and trying. Anyone with an I.Q. above 70 should be able to do this. This is not about racism. It's not about nationalism. It's about common sense, and respect for other cultures. I live in Japan because I want to. I have plenty of complaints about the government, and certain tendencies in the society, but I respect the culture and the people, so I have made an effort to understand them. The first step was learning Japanese. It was hard. It was frustrating. But I did it. And frankly, I have little respect for people who live in Japan for years without trying to learn Japanese. It would be racist of me to hold immigrants living in America to a different standard. Are they more stupid than I? No. All they have to do is get out there and try to communicate with the natives. In many parts of America, if you are a Spanish, Korean, Cantonese or Mandarin speaker, it is possible to get by without learning English. Does that mean I have to respect your "right" to not learn English? Sorry, but the answer is no. I struggled to learn the language of the country I chose to live in. Today, I can understand 99.9% of the spoken Japanese I encounter, I can say anything I want to in Japanese, I can read Japanese, and I even sometimes get paid to write in Japanese. I may be a heterosexual male of Western European descent, but where I live I'm a minority, and face discrimination on a daily basis. I've learned to live with it. (Hell, I can always go back to the U.S. where I'll be in the dominant class.) For me, it's a matter of pride. I'll eat anything that's offered to me. I'll take on anyone who wants to make fun of the "foreigner." If you have pride, prove it by holding on to your own culture while mastering the language and culture of the country you choose to live in. I don't care if it's the U.S., Canada, the Netherlands, or Kenya.What do you think?

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Matt Thorn

Department of Comics Production

Kyoto Seika University

Nyanko
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(Date Posted:09/24/2006 12:15 AM)

I think the man was a bit reactionary.



I agree with you,"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." I think that is what most immigrants in the U.S. ARE doing. I do think they are learning to speak English here, but it's not as easy as "I want to speak English" BOOM! "Thou art now blessed and an English speaker." It takes a while. Lots of these people just came...from where ever it is they came from and haven't learned English that well, yet. I don't think it's right to fault them. I bet it's pretty hard to work a 12 hour day in the fields (or whatever), be on the run from the law (as is the case for illegals) and try to learn English. It's just that their priorities are a bit different



In short the sign was wierd, and the politician was horrible...but well, that pretty much sums up a lot of the world, anyway? Boy, do I sound cynical today or what...sorry...
matt-thorn
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(Date Posted:09/24/2006 5:34 AM)

Hello again! Yes, the sign was a bit weird. If he really wants to help the kind of people you describe, he could have worded the sign in a more encouraging way, and perhaps even gotten someone to help him add the words in Spanish, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, etc. And the opener--"This is America"--is clearly an unnecessary and sarcastic barb. And politicians are of course universally horrible (the great pitfall of representative democracy).

--------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Thorn

Department of Comics Production

Kyoto Seika University

TheStatue
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(Date Posted:09/29/2006 10:51 AM)

Reply to : matt-thorn



Regardless of whether or not the sign could have been written more diplomatically, the man has a very good point. While I personally grew up in a very diverse area, where frankly, if you spoke Mandarin or Spanish, or quite possibly Japanese, you could get by without ever learning English, that's fairly uncommon. (It was very odd going out-of-state for college... I found I could actually understood most of what everyone was speaking as I walked across campus! How weird!) Frankly, I think it's more than a little ridiculous that my best friend's dad has lived in the US for almost thirty years and still knows less than a hundred words of English. But outside of very diverse international areas, learning English is a requirement for fully functioning in the US. Just as one would expect a person to learn, say, French, if he or she lived in France, it is only reasonable to expect that someone at least make the attempt to learn English while living in the US. It seems almost rude not to... and it definitely can and will put any children you have at a distinct disadvantage when they start schooling if they cannot understand the language their peers speak fluently.



It almost feels like people want to enjoy all the benefits of living in a society without bothering to have the courtesy to learn the language required to really contribute anything to the society they are benefiting from. It's not dissimilar to people who don't vote but then complain about the state of the government. For one thing, it's incredibly obnoxious. It's an unproductive attitude that keeps people from progressing... and in regards to language barriers, such a lack of progression can certainly harm socio-economic growth. Former nationalities and/or race have nothing to do with the issue... the issue is the willingness or lack thereof of people to contribute and at least partially assimilate into the society they are enjoy the privileges of. The issue is pertinent no matter which country is in question; whether you've immigrated to Japan or to Guatemala or to the USA, there is no excuse for not trying to learn the language your peers are all using. And I firmly believe almost anyone can learn any language if they truly try, with the possible exception of Finnish, which, from what I've heard of people who have moved there, is practically impossible to learn, especially as the natives will not speak to you in their native tongue even if you address them in it. (As well, as the sole member of a multilingual family who does not pick up or retain languages easily, I truly struggle to learn and keep up with family members in even one other language... and at this point I feel that if even I can start to pick up at least the basic grammar and vocabulary of other languages, anyone can.)
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RE:Speaking English in America
(Date Posted:04/04/2008 11:56 PM)

Better start speaking Chinese!

I think this is going to be much more than just a Bush Depression. The Bush clan and oil companies need all that money for their "New World Order". That is why the oil companies are getting it all and the people are losing it all. It amounts to the Bush decline and Fall of America. There will be no recovering from this depression. The trillions of dollars they are siphoning off from the country Will go to building their massive hidy holes. They need each of these holes to be able to hold thousands of their comrades for decades. They will tap geothermal energy and use hydroponic gardens to they can be completely sealed off from the destruction above. When the wars are over and the air clears up they will emerge to become kings of the planet. Any other survivors will be slaves. They having been working on this plan since the sixties and success in imminent. This is the intentional destruction of the USA and world war to follow.

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RE:Speaking English in America
(Date Posted:06/16/2008 4:54 PM)

I find it interesting that people attribute non-fluency to laziness or cultural preference. In Germany alot more money is put into teaching immagrints to achieve fluency. I think alot of American programs mean well, but are underfunded to the point of being absolutely blameworthy. People cannot achieve fluency only through buying groceries, especially when their families prefer native language at home (as I prefer speaking English with my husband). I couldn't have learn German without a classroom to back-up my life experience here, and I am not (by American standards) lazy. I believe the debate can only start and stop at the governments responsibility to help communication by providing free adequate language learning programs for illegal as well as legal immagrints. In Manchester NH in the last ten years I think the rise in crime has been a direct result of a huge wave of immagrints who were not given any sort of welcome or help. You can say it's a person's own responsibility to educate themselves, and see what happens in your town. Provide needed help and welcome and you will see another sort of community.
sugan2
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