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IronMouse
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(Date Posted:08/02/2005 7:47 AM)
When's the "Hate-China" version coming out? I think it will sell even more than the "Hate-Korea" book.
Are there any reviews of the book on Amazon.jp? Perhaps looking at the reviews (if any) can tell you of the type of people who bought that book. For all that we know, it could be satire.
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Sibauchi
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(Date Posted:08/02/2005 3:17 PM)
Well, pretty much of it was like, "this is the most objective alternate view on Korea" or "As you read more, you'll understand why you'd want to hate Koreans more" or "I like Korean culture but I hate the country because the people and government behave so childlike because they just can't get over the past (it's ironic someone would say this, since Japan was once insulted by General MacArthur as a nation of 12-year-olds)" or "Read this if you want to know Korea beyond the TV dramas (which was the part I found very sad)." A few criticisms do say that the manga seems more like a collection of anti-Korean slurs taken from 2ch, not the author's own viewpoint, which further discourages me from having the idea to buy it. On the topic of Korea and Koreans, I believe Michael Breen's The Koreans(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312326092/qid=1123071549/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-9774015-4187256) would be a far better and interesting read-it's not manga, but it has good humour and I can see that the author has been really working out some personal demons and at the same time trying to be fair and understanding. Anti-China...I'm wondering if they're working on a whole series, although if a book called Anti-America comes out it'll probably sell better in Korea and other countries.
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Life can be a pain. But it ain't that bad, either.
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matt-thorn
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(Date Posted:08/02/2005 4:17 PM)
Matt here. Yes, I am alive, though you wouldn't know it from looking at the message boards. I've been incredibly busy, and right now I'm spending August in Boston.
I had not heard about this until Sibauchi posted her message here. I was extremely disturbed to find out about this (in fact, I had trouble getting to sleep last night because I was thinking about it!), but the thing that disturbs me the most is the fact that this is currently the top-selling book on Amazon.co.jp.
In my opinion, though, this book (and its popularity) represent a backlash not against the current Korea fad in Japan, but rather against the hate-filled anti-Japan demonstrations that took place in China and South Korea last year. Chinese and Koreans were right to be angry about the government approving those evil new textbooks (which, by the way, are just a few of many textbooks among which local school boards can choose), but lets face it: many of those demonstrations were scarier than the textbooks themselves. "Die Japanese dogs"? Attacking innocent Japanese citizens just because they are Japanese? That's not the way to open a dialogue. The right-leaning weekly men's magazines in Japan jumped all over those demonstrations, and helped feed the current nationalistic trend in Japan.
In other words, the anti-Japan demonstrations were like Bush dropping bombs on Baghdad. Rather than solve problems, they simply made things worse. Just as the war in Iraq has been the ultimate recruiting tool for al-Qaida, the anti-Japan demonstrations have become a recruiting tool for Japanese nationalists. No one was happier than the nationalists to see those demonstrations all over the television.
This is a very sad and upsetting situation, but I wish more Koreans and Chinese would try to think of constructive ways to change the consciousness of Japanese people for the better, instead of lashing out angrily whenever the Japanese government or some Japanese group does something offensive.
As this book proves, hate breeds hate, and nothing but hate.
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Matt Thorn
Department of Comics Production
Kyoto Seika University
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IronMouse
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(Date Posted:08/02/2005 6:56 PM)
Hey, Matt is still alive! *waves* My TokyoPop book "The Dreaming" is finished and coming out in December! You have to take a look at it!! And Sibauchi too. :p I agree that the book has nothing to do with Yon-sama and everything to do with Japan dodging wartime guilt. And quite frankly, it didn't actually get truly nasty until the wave of demonstrations this year in China - since Koreans have been protesting the Japanese for many years anyway. It was a combination of the China demonstrations, and also how the Japanese media decided to spin the story - and quite frankly, regardless of the irresponsible behaviour by the protestors, the Japanese media should also take some flak for their coverage of the event. Relations between China and Japan weren't all that great - was there any need to ham up the sensationalism in their news coverage? I DON'T forgive the protestors, but what MANY media coverage didn't show is that only a very small number of Chinese took part in those protests. Only 10,000 in a city like Shanghai, which is a city of MILLIONS. They disrupted traffic and busted windows - but most people couldn't care less and got on with their lives. There are rural protests in China that has 200,000 protestors, SUCCESSFULLY fighting off police - so 10,000 in a city is a joke. And there were less in other cities around China. China's got 1.3 billion people - and they've got more fights to pick with the government than they have with the Japanese. >_< So I think a reality check is need on both sides. China's got far too many loud people to rein in, and considering how important the future of China, Korea and Japan are to each other - the media can really do more in their portrayal of Korea and China, and vice versa. But ofcouse, we all know that the Japanese media is being bullied around by the right-ring nutso-fascists that basically run the Diet. The Korea media has always been antagonistic towards Japan, and the Chinese media isn't allowed to pan the government so they pan the Japanese instead.  There is much hate floating around and the factions who CAN help mend fences just isn't going to. I forsee tough times ahead.
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Sibauchi
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(Date Posted:08/03/2005 3:33 PM)
Congratulations Ironmice! I'm definately looking forward to it!
Sorry for causing you insomnia, Matt. Although even I choked when I saw it being featured in Korean prime time news, and not in a very nice way either, so I can understand you. Personally, I was profoundly pained and disturbed to see that a book like that had to come out as a manga, one of the few things about Japan that Koreans (mostly) love, although it's perhaps one reason it's selling so well in Amazon. I agree with Ironmice that this was mostly about a backlash on the demonstrations in China, which in turn got (at least) the Japanese media reporting on Korea as well. There was so much hate floating around that time that I was scared to do to any major websites in either Korean or Japanese. At least about the situation of Japanese people being attacked in China, any sane Korean and Chinese person was harshly critical of the few demonstrators who had turned so aggressive. What's more discouraging though is that it took a violent demonstration in China to get the world's attention about the problems of the Japanese right-wing, which explains in one way or another why violent measures seem to work better than peaceful ones. Stories of the old ladies protesting peacefully every Wednesday in front of the Japanese embassy in Seoul, or on the other hand the descendents of the assassins who killed Queen Min coming to Korea to apologize to her tomb for their ancestor's crime, goes virtually unnoticed and ignored. The best the moderate part of Korean media can do is not mentioning anything about Japan at all, because senational articles full of hatred and meanness againste Japan sells much better, and sometimes even moderates are denounced as "traitors." Sometimes the situation seems such that I wonder if the only time when Korea and China won't care about whatever nonsense the Japanese right-wing throw about is when they become exceedingly richer than Japan. The typical Canadian solution would be...lots of dialogue, although perhaps they should be open-minded enough to at least want to start a chat. There's such a huge gap right now. Do you think comics can bridge it somehow?
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matt-thorn
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(Date Posted:08/04/2005 12:02 AM)
Queenie, congratulations! I'm looking forward to seeing the book.
I hope I don't sound pro-Japanese and anti-Korean/Chinese here, but let me play the devil's advocate here for a moment. Considering how nationalistic so many Koreans and Chinese are these days, doesn't it seeem a bit hypocritical for them to react so strongly to any hint of nationalism in Japan? The feeling of the neo-nationalists in Japan today really boils down to, "Hey, why can't I be proud of my country?" And while I find it extremely disturbing that a book like the one we're talking about could find such a big audience in Japan, would I be right in guessing that there are probably many such anti-Japanese books published in both Korea and China, and that they enjoy a large readership?
The Japanese nationalists ask, "What more do you want? How many times does Japan have to apologize?" And frankly, I sometimes wonder the same thing. For decades, Japanese children have been taught in school that Japan's war of invasion was a terrible mistake that led to much misery, and should never be repeated. And for a long time, the Japanese believed that. But now they are becoming frustrated with the constant demands for apologies and reparations, and what we are seeing now is a backlash. We don't see this happening in Europe. Why can't East Asia (or maybe I should say the nationalists in Korea, China and Japan) put the war behind them? Yes, there are injustices that were never properly addressed (how about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?), but that is true in Europe, too, and in any war in human history. The vast majority of the people responsible for the Pacific War are dead. The government in Japan today (despite Yasukuni and the textbooks) is NOT the government that invaded Korea and China. Young people raised in a democratic and peaceful Japan wonder why they have to pay for the sins of their grandparents.
Yes, there should be reparations for the women who were forced into sexual service for the Japanese military. I am not saying we should forget about that. But there should be some way to deal with that without treating the younger Japanese of today as war criminals.
God, I sound like I'm picking a fight here, but believe me, I'm not. I am just really saddened and frustrated by what I see going on (as are Sibauchi and Queenie), and I feel there is a lot of blame to go around.
BTW, I am now on the sh*tlist of the new right wing in Japan. In a column I wrote for Shukan ST a couple months ago, I talked about the rise of nationalism in Japan today, and in passing I casually mentioned that the neo-nationalists were peddling lies about Japanese war crimes. Well, now the publisher and my university are being harrassed by right wingers. It's probaby only a matter of time before they find my e-mail address and web site and start harrassing me personally. (One guy has apparently been calling my office at school, but I've never been in when he calls.)
But it is nice to have a forum like this where reasonable, good-hearted people from different countries can talk without fighting. I hope it stays this way.
Anyway, about Sibauchi's question about the possibility of comics bridging the gap: I sure hope so! In fact, I talk about this with my students, and I'm hoping that a few may go on to create manga that can counter the hate-mongering of Gomanism and this current piece of crap. Unfortunately, there's also a chance that a new voice for the Right could come out of our program.
God, this is depressing, isn't it?
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Matt Thorn
Department of Comics Production
Kyoto Seika University
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IronMouse
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(Date Posted:08/04/2005 9:33 AM)
Thanks, Matt and Sibauchi!  I'll definately harass the PR department at TokyoPop and get them to send you free preview copies. Things have been rushed here though - I just found out today the in-production deadline has been pushed back 1 month to 15th August. *Mad scramble* :| Considering how nationalistic so many Koreans and Chinese are these days, doesn't it seeem a bit hypocritical for them to react so strongly to any hint of nationalism in Japan?I think it IS hypocritical, to a degree. Every country is entitled to nationalistic impulses, no matter what it's done in the past, so from a THEORETICAL view-point, I don't think there is a problem with Japanese nationalism. In PRACTICE, however, things are quite different because people are using nationalism as a pretext for being hostile, and to demonise other countries while encouraging ignorance all round. This goes for China and Korea, not just Japan. Nationalism is a good thing, but only when it's benign - but nationalism is VERY rarely benign. Personally, I would rather NONE of the three countries be nationalistic than ALL of them be, because nationalistic countries always end up being hostile to each other. For decades, Japanese children have been taught in school that Japan's war of invasion was a terrible mistake that led to much misery, and should never be repeated. And for a long time, the Japanese believed that. If this is indeed true, then there is ALOT of misinformation going around. Because that's NOT what the Chinese press is saying, that it's NOT what the AUSTRALIAN (and other English-language) press is saying. The Australian and American press has always been China-hostile in its reporting, but here they unanimously report that Japan has NOT repented for its war crimes, and that it's children are reading textbooks that are do NOT properly address the war. There was a huge debacle a while back in the American press, over some textbook being allegedely taught in a Japanese high school. The article said, and I remember this well, that the textbook said WW2 *STARTED* when the US dropped the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki! Trouble is, I know most teachers in Japan are left-wing, and would not have taught that in class. But that wasn't what the American newspaper reported. I've mentioned the Japanese press and their role in the whole debacle, but it's fair time to turn to the foreign press and see how THEY paint the whole affair as well. The Chinese press and Korean press has always been hostile, but the English-language press is guilty of under-reporting or misinformation as well. Whenever the Japanese Ministry of Education release some stupid textbook that nobody reads, the outcry REVERBERATES around the world, not just in the Chinese or Korea press. "LOOK! Japan has not yet dealt with its wartime guilt!!" The headlines scream. Whenever radical grandstanders like Shintaro Ishihara utters a racist statement (one per month), it is HAMMED UP in the international press. The French is his latest target - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4678209.stm Quite frankly, if Japan has faced up to its war crimes, then no one outside Japan knows about it. But now they are becoming frustrated with the constant demands for apologies and reparations, and what we are seeing now is a backlash. We don't see this happening in Europe. Why can't East Asia (or maybe I should say the nationalists in Korea, China and Japan) put the war behind them? Yes, there are injustices that were never properly addressed (how about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?), but that is true in Europe, too, and in any war in human history.To demand that Japan make a public PUBLIC apology, and beg for forgiveness like Nazi Germany, cannot be done. The time has passed to do that. However, there is alot of murkiness to the differences in how Japan and Germany were treated after WW2 that can't be sorted out by "let's all forget this", at least not to the Chinese and Koreans. And it doesn't only involve Japan. Edit: Oh yes, you didn't mention the fire-bombing of Tokyo - that killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima COMBINED. If I were to construct a list of all War Crimes in WW2, Hiroshim and Nagasaki would definately be on the list, as would the Firebombing of Tokyo, and the assault by American troops on Okinawa. They were deliberate targets on civilians, and the people who ordered it were never brought to justice either! >  When Germany lost the war, it was forced to most publically repent, erect memorials and repay lots of money to the Allied nations it ruined. When Japan lost the war, it didn't have to do anything that Germany did, and the Americans let some of the japanese war criminals that should have been tried go, especially those involved in the biological experiments of Unit 731. Reason why they let these guys go was because they wanted the results of the Unit 731 experiments, and quite frankly, because a Chinese or Korean life wasn't worth half as much as that of a "white" person's life. That attitude came from uglier times, and quite frankly, it's also part of what stirs up alot of hate. The sense that there WASN'T any justice for the most horrifying aspect of WW2. This is DESPITE Japan have loaned millions in aid to China since then - most people don't even care about that, if they know about it. All they know is that the people responsible for Unit 731 has been allowed to walk free, and many of them returned to work in the medical field in Japan (like Lt-Geneeral Shiro Ishii - google his name). That is why no matter how hard you argue that the government of Japan today has nothing to do with the government of the past, it doesn't sound that way to the Chinese, because in their eyes, it IS no different. **About Unit 731 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731 I thought you may like to know about this, because it's used as a rallying point for anti-Japanese rhetoric. I found out about this a year or so ago, and kept tabs on it because the stories about it were more horrifying and sensationalist than that of accounts like the Nanjing Massacre - all the more apparent because some Allied POWs were subjected to the experiments too. The Nanjing Massacre has been used as a rallying point for Chinese extremists, and now they add something like this to it. The hate-o-meter just shoots up like a rocket. Apparently the nationalist nutsos won't rest until Unit 731 and the Nanjing Massacre is described in excruciating detail in Japanese textbooks, something that will never happen. BTW, I am now on the sh*tlist of the new right wing in Japan.Good heavens! I hope you're okay. Those crazy guys had better not come around to the university with their black trucks and megaphones and start blaring right-wing slogans at you. At least most Japanese think they're idiots and a nuisance.
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Sibauchi
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(Date Posted:08/04/2005 7:38 PM)
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julianortega
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. Just to add, I know it's extremely difficult to learn a shameful history of your country and yet still be proud of your heritage. I personally felt tormented during history class in junior high and high school when it came to the late 19th century and 20th century part, because learning in detail about how your ancestors let other nations trample all over them is an infuriating and frustrating experience. (Modern Literature class didn't help either, as we know that most of those poets and writers got arrested, prisoned, tortured, executed and died before the liberation. I was filled with dread every time we entered a new unit because of reading of what horrors this new author had to endure. And we were TEENAGERS! Didn't the education ministry know that we were quite a sensitive lot?) And any WW2 scholar (whether from the East or West) can tell you that Japan is not doing enough to accurately inform their past crimes (i.e: highly useful information on why neighborhood countries are pissed off) compared to...oh, typical, but Germany. It's harsh, but you have to live with it so you won't make the same mistake again. And yet even Germany is criticized for "not doing enough"- I remember how grudgingly my Polish friends referred to Germany, which was quite interesting. Or perhaps Germany didn't do enough for Poland than it did for France because of its political and economical situation after the war. The victims' status also does matter sadly, as Queeniechan pointed out-it reminds me of a radio interview of Lt. Gen. Rom? Dallaire about the Rwandan Genocide. I guess the point is not exactly about any literal apology since even I would feel awkward if I had to apologize for some window I broke ten years ago, but whether Japan has gained trust eough from its neighbors. So far, they're still suspicious.